Unstoppable Confidence with Michael Griswold PDF
Unstoppable Confidence with Michael Griswold mp3
michael fiore: Hi this is Michael Fiore, and I want to welcome you to this very special interview I am doing with my good friend, one of the smartest guys I know around relationships, also a Michael, Michael Griswold. Michael, say hello.
michael griswold: Hey, thanks for having me, Michael.
michael fiore: No problem. So yeah, we’ll be going back and forth and saying Michael and Michael a lot on this call, so please bear with us as far as this goes. I first met Michael Gris- wold several years ago when I was at a seminar, I believe in Washington D.C., and was really struck at the time about his depth of understanding of women and relationships and how women can approach relationships in a really powerful way. How a woman can have better relationships. Michael himself has a program called “The M3 System,” which is built around helping men and women who have lost the man or woman they love in their life, who have broken up with them to get them back. It’s fantastic material in my opinion.
And also, Michael, we were talking the other day about the concept of confidence and what confidence means. And I find in my own programs, when I survey the many women on my list, confidence or lack of confidence is an extremely big problem. Insecurity. Women not feeling confident dating and women not feeling confident once they get into a relation- ship, seems to be one of the biggest issues that is affecting women out there and in my opinion keeping them from hav- ing the kind of fun, sexy, wonderful relationships they want. So I’ve invited Michael to come to the line with me here today to talk about confidence and to give you tips on how you can drastically increase your personal confidence to have a better love life, better relationships and better life overall. Michael, I’d like to start off just asking you, what does the word confi- dence mean to you, especially as it relates to women, and why do you think so many women have confidence issues when it comes to dating and relationships?
michael griswold: Right. Okay, so first of all thanks, Michael, for you know, that introduction. I always like it when people say nice things about me, appreciate that.
michael fiore: What a confident thing for you to say! There you go.
michael griswold: And you know, when we were talking about this the other day I chose to go out and just to be especially equipped for his interview, I chose to talk to some of the most beautiful and most single and most happy and most satisfied women that I know in relationships. And I spent some time this last week asking them some of these same questions, because I wanted to get, you know, their perspective. You know, the conclusion that I came to is that everything that you’ve heard about men in relationships, unless you’ve heard it from Michael, is wrong. And the reason is, because, here’s what happens, is women who are single sit around and they talk about, they talk to each other about why they’re single and why they’re unhappy. What happens is, the idea of con- fidence, which is predominantly kind of, just has this male connotation right, that it’s a male–
michael fiore: It’s got a certain dominance feel to it. It’s got that, like, guy walking up to any woman or doing anything and feeling unassailable.
michael griswold: Exactly, right. Yeah, I love the word unassail- able. But you know what, I like to put it into a different con- text, because I think that there, you know, just like there are polarities, right, the male energy and the feminine energy, I think we can apply that to this same thing. It’s pretty well regarded that one of the most attractive qualities in a man is confidence. But it doesn’t really make sense to me for that to be one of the most attractive qualities in a woman, because that’s a male trait. So as I’ve been thinking about it, I’ve come up with this idea that the most attractive quality in a woman is vulnerability. And I define vulnerability as the essence of strength. And here’s what I mean by that. A woman who is vulnerable has this (snaps) this un. . . she doesn’t even have to say it, it exudes from her. She says, “You may hurt me, however that will not crush me. And because I’m so secure with who I am, I am me, and I cannot be crushed by your rejection or approval.” And what I heard in all of these inter- actions is this continued refrain, and I’m sure that this rings true for you Michael and for the people on the call, is you hear this all the time, “I just don’t want to get hurt.”
michael fiore: Oh, very much so, yeah. I know many women who write me, I get emails all the time from my email list and on
Facebook from women saying, “I can never love again because it hurts so much right now.” Or, “that man did this to me or did that to me,” and they basically “turtle up” at that point. They become emotional turtles or emotional hedgehogs, right, and kind of go from there.
michael griswold: Yeah, and the thing is, let’s just, I mean there is so much to say about that, you know the whole idea that he did this to me and–
michael fiore: Oh, we can rant on that all day. I talk about this in my program, actually, about how the concept, any time you use language, whether actually speaking it or thinking it that way, where you say that a man did something to you, you’re basically giving him a tremendous amount of power and framing yourself as a victim from then on. Right?
michael griswold: Right, and you know what it really does is it al- lows you to abdicate responsibility for, you know, being happy. But let’s just, let’s come even, you know, make it into brass tacks. What happens in that situation is that woman carries this idea that this happened, and she carries that 300-pound gorilla on her back into the next relationship. So what hap- pens is some guy comes up who has done nothing to her, has had no reason to be scorned or skeptical, and she already as- signs to him all of the baggage and the hurt that came from the last relationship.
Now here’s the beauty of what we’re talking about for a woman. The woman, and I’ve met women like this, and I would liter- ally get down on my hands and knees and crawl 50 miles in order to be with them because they have something that is, as you say, unassailable. They have this (snaps) this essence about them, and that is “hey, you know what? Life is, I’m going to get hurt and it’s okay.” And when that strength, that essence of strength, is there, what it does is it creates a safe place for a man to be a man. I don’t know, Michael, have you ever seen the movie Garden State?
michael fiore: I have. Great movie.
michael griswold: Awesome. So Zach Braff, in the movie, he’s talking to Natalie Portman and he says, “You feel like home.”
michael fiore: Yep.
michael griswold: Now that is exactly what we’re talking about. And because if you look at her character, she is exactly what we’re talking about. Like,yeah, she has emotions, I’m not try- ing to propose that women become hardened and not have any kind of emotional reaction. She has emotions, however, they don’t cripple her. They don’t keep her from exuding courage. They don’t keep her from being a woman. See, what happens so often is when women get hurt, then they abdicate their femininity. They give up the beauty and the al- lure and the thing that makes men crave them, and they put themselves into a situation, unfortunately, that allows them to just be continuing the cycle.
And I’ve kind of come up with two basic, well there’s three ideas, right, and typically once a girl gets hurt she goes to one of these three, we can talk about that in a minute. But the whole idea is that in the movie Zach Braff is moved by this woman. And he’s moved by her because of her vulnerability. And I know that vulnerability has a, kind of a weakness con- notation, but I stand completely in the opposite and if you know somebody who’s vulnerable you know that they are ab- solutely strong.
michael fiore: But I think the key is to think of it as vulnerable, not in, like, not like a war context, right? Like a war con- text is “oh, he’s vulnerable here, so we’re going to attack him there,” right? But it’s vulnerable as far as being unguarded to a certain degree. Not having your shields up all the time, not feeling like you have to keep the world out, or keep emotions out, or hold people at arm’s length all the time for fear of “oh, it’s going to go wrong,” or you’re going to get hurt. What I hear you saying is, yeah, you’re going to get hurt and that’s okay, that’s part of what it is, that’s part of believing to live as a woman.
michael griswold: There’s this delusion, isn’t there, Michael, that some day when, you know, at the end of the rainbow or, you know, when you get a pot of gold or meet the right person, then you’re never going to get it again. Let’s just imagine this for a second. Let’s live in that alternate reality, okay.
michael fiore: Yeah, great, sure.
michael griswold: Let’s live in this alternate reality where you never get hurt. That would be miserable.
michael fiore: It would.
michael griswold: I mean, can you imagine being in a relation- ship and being so unmoved by the person that you love that they, that you don’t feel any pain when they say something that hurts you?
michael fiore: Well, never getting hurt means not caring. michael griswold: That’s exactly right
michael fiore: Fundamentally, it means not caring. It means not being in love, or not being in lust or not being anything. Just being closed off.
michael griswold: That’s right. It means being, it means not liv- ing, you’re just existing. And in order, you know, in order to have love you need to have the opposite. In order to have exhilaration you need to have the other. So let’s just be rid once and for all, I mean for all of you girls and women and lovely ladies who are on this call, let’s just be rid once and for all, and when you’re friends tell you, just be rid of the whole notion of not getting hurt again. Because it’s just absolute rubbish, and more than that, it puts you into this mindset that sets you up for failure. And this is why people who are in unhappy relationships or aren’t in relationships, they are in continual refrain, “I don’t want to get hurt.” “Oh, I got hurt in my last relationship.” Well, of course you did.
michael fiore: Yeah.
michael griswold: And that’s okay.
michael fiore: And you’re going to get hurt in your next relation- ship, too. I mean my girlfriend and I are going to hurt each other in one way or another. We had a little fight the other day, it wasn’t a big deal, but we both got hurt and then we came back together later and went from there. That’s just part of how it works.
michael griswold: Here’s the beauty right? The beauty is being hurt sets you up to be healed. And is there anything better, Michael, is there anything sweeter or more satisfying, well, besides sex, is there anything sweeter or more satisfying than that?
michael fiore: Well, sex can be a great way to heal, too.
michael griswold: Right, in that blissful reconciliation. Like by being hurt you get the opportunity to have someone help heal you. And dude, every one of us has been sick or injured or, you know, in some way not our best and been the beneficiary, been the recipient, of someone’s kindness. Doesn’t that feel great? Doesn’t it feel great to be “healed” by another person, by their care and their love?
michael fiore: So basically, give them the opportunity to help you heal, right? To give them the opportunity to open yourself to the idea being able to connect with other people in a way that’s going to give you that healing, that’s going to give you back that lovely feeling again.
michael griswold: Right, ’cause what happens usually, right, so somebody gets hurt and what happens immediately? Closed off.
michael fiore: Oh, yeah.
michael griswold: And then who’s going to help you? How are you going to resolve this hurt? I’ll tell you, it doesn’t happen. What happens, and I know you know this, Michael, because I’ve gone through some of your programs and I. . . First of all, I just have immense respect for your integrity and the way that you kind of hold a banner against all of the other nonsense I’m speaking about in relationships. I’m really so glad for the people who are a part of your newsletter and they get to get that.
michael fiore: Well, thank you very much. Yeah.
michael griswold: Yeah but you know, the whole idea is you get hurt and then there’s nothing to do about it, there’s nowhere to go, and all that does is it gets buried deeper and deeper and deeper. And what sprouts up, when you plant hurt, is resentment and bitterness. So you get hurt, and instead of allowing it to be healed, instead of being open to expressing that and being okay that you’re hurt, instead you bury it. Right? And you bury it deeper and deeper and deeper, and before long you’ve got resentment and bitterness. And for some reason you guys are arguing about absolutely nothing and it’s because the things that hurt you, you buried six feet into your soul.
michael fiore: And so you can’t be honest about them at that point. It makes a ton of sense to me, actually. It makes a ton of sense as far as the pain I see so many women going through when they’re with men. You know, when they’re dat- ing men, when they’re, you know, in a relationship with men, of just, like, feeling so angry, feeling so bitter, feeling so de- fensive all the time.
Honestly, in my program to a lot of degree, a lot of times I explain to women the part of the problem is women have the expectation that men feel and interact in the same way that women do. Right? And one of the reasons that women get hurt so much is because they basically have this expecta- tion that men feel in the same dynamic way that women do, and that men are as. . . I don’t want to say manipulative, but as crafty as women are. Right? Women often assume that men are, because women are crafty, women are, and I’m not saying this as a way to diss women but women are more ma- nipulative in a lot of ways. Women tend to make plans and play games–
michael griswold: Emotionally, emotionally.
michael fiore: Emotionally, very much so, yes. I mean, men play their own games. Emotionally they do this, and women as- sume that men are going to do the same thing and so they make these gross assumptions and when men don’t live up to those expectations women get hurt, they turtle up, they be- come more and more dependent. They’re like, “why can’t you prove to me that you love me etc. etc. etc.” and it becomes this vicious kind of circle.
michael griswold: Yeah, I love that expression. I think you coined it: “turtle up.”
michael fiore: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Turtle up.
michael griswold: Just for clarity, when you say women are more manipulative emotionally–
michael fiore: Yeah.
michael griswold: What do you mean by that?
michael fiore: I mean that women have a tendency to, usually un- consciously I find, but women have a tendency to play games, that try to get what they want in a relationship. Right? And I find that most of the time they’re not doing it on purpose. Very few women are waking up and saying, “I’m going to play a game with my man today to try to get him to do what I want.” But subtly, in ways they don’t even necessarily understand, women find themselves doing things that try to get a man to slay a dragon for her, basically. Right?
michael griswold: And here’s the beautiful thing: men want to slay the dragon for you. I mean, there’s nothing that is more exhilarating to a man. Not making money, not, you know, getting the award at his company, not winning the gold medal. There is nothing that is primal, that is more satisfying to a man than slaying the dragon. However, if is coerced–
michael fiore: Yeah.
michael griswold: If it’s an obligation, then, you know, there is resentment, build up on both sides.
michael fiore: And I find in my own relationships, you know, my current girlfriend is great at not needing things from me, right? And she’s very confident in our love, she’s very con- fident in our relationship, and she doesn’t need things from me, and she doesn’t, you know, whine or manipulate me for things, which actually motivates me to do more for her.
michael griswold: Well, that’s partly a credit to you, because of the way that you’ve been tender and loving with her.
michael fiore: Well, we also work on our relationship a lot, which is a whole other thing, but yeah.
michael griswold: Here’s the thing, so you know, in talking to these women before our call and the much work that has gone into this realm, there’s all these books out there.
michael fiore: Yeah, many, many, many.
michael griswold: Women on this call may be familiar with Why Men Marry Bitches. Now I love this.
michael fiore: Great title, great title, yeah.
michael griswold: I love the title, and I’ve actually read through a good bit of the book. And here’s the problem, that is, great marketing and it’s great as a concept, however all of these, first of all, there’s like 150 things, right? Don’t be the one to call him. Always be the one to end the phone call.
michael fiore: Yep.
michael griswold: Make him call, all of this. And first of all, it’s nauseating to try to keep up with all that. Second of all, you implicitly and subconsciously set this up as a competition. You’re setting up your relationship as “who’s going to win this.” Now of course, if you follow all this woman’s advice, then you may win at first, until you’re emotionally invested and you’ve set up a context that has no real structure, has no real foundation, it has no real soul. Instead it’s strategy pos- turing and angling, and once women are invested emotionally they are no match, because they will do anything in order to make this relationship work. Because women, I think, have a great deal more commitment than most men do. And so these ideas, these ploys to kind of get a guy, while they may work in the short term, end up really just being disadvantageous and hurtful to you.
michael fiore: I actually think it’s very similar to, you know, guys who study how to pick up girls at bars. Where there are many techniques you can use that, you know, such as “negging,” which is concept where you play on a woman’s low self esteem, different openings people use or things like that.
Michael, you still there?
michael griswold: I am, yeah.
michael fiore: Oh, great. And you’re basically manipulating women into feeling attraction or feeling low self esteem and going home with you. That can be great if you’re just interested as a guy–and many guys are, quite honestly–just getting a girl to go home with you for one night and going on from there, that works well. The problem guys run into is when they actually decide, “hey, I really want a girlfriend.”
michael griswold: Right.
michael fiore: Right. And suddenly they find themselves,“ yeah, I got this woman to go home with me once or twice, and now I’m trying to have an actual relationship.” And none of that stuff works anymore. None of that stuff is useful in any way in actually developing a long-term relationship with a woman who’s going to see you and understand you.
Because guys want to be seen and understood for who they are and accepted for who they are. Want to be accepted for being guys, which is a lot of what I teach. Teaching women how to accept guys for being guys and being okay with the fact that they’re guys, they’re morons sometimes, it’s fine. I think it’s very similar to what you’re talking about here with women. That will work to get a guy to get a ring on your finger but it’s not going to give you that relationship you want.
michael griswold: Yeah and imagine starting a relationship based on all of these strategies, and then continue to do that for the rest of your life. I mean, how vapid and soulless. So, you know, I think you can sum it up, and Michael, we haven’t talked about this so I’m going to go on a limb here–
michael fiore: Go for it.
michael griswold: And put something out there. I think that there’s really only two things that you need to do in order to get a man to fall in love with you.
michael fiore: Great, okay, what are they?
michael griswold: One: you earn his respect. Okay, so let me back up. It’s very popular and it’s very well known that women love to be pursued. Man they love–
michael fiore: Oh god, yeah. Constantly. And they get angry when they’re not pursued.
michael griswold: Yeah, and justifiably. I completely get it. I mean, they want to feel wanted, and that is absolutely un- derstandable. Men don’t want that. Men, which is why a woman will say “I love you,” and a woman thinks that means the same thing as her hearing “I love you,” but it doesn’t. What a man wants is respect. A man wants to be respected for his accomplishments. Respected for being a man.
So there’s two steps. One, which is why if you tell a guy you respect him, it’s way more powerful than “I love you.” But here’s the deal. You first earn a man’s respect, which means not trying to manipulate him, not trying to play these games, ’cause the guy that you really want is going to see through that nonsense. I mean, if you pick up some knucklehead who doesn’t have any social acumen, well yeah, it will work.
michael fiore: Just like with guys who are picking up girls using some of that player stuff. Yeah, you can get a girl with low self esteem who doesn’t like herself very much. Do you want to be in a relationship with that woman? Like, yeah.
michael griswold: So first of all, that stuff’s not going to work, and second of all, the guy that you want, he’s got more to offer than just tricks and that. So first, you earn his respect and that is, we’ll get to this in a minute, about being this vulnerable woman.
And then, and here’s the magic, right? Magic is you tell him that you respect him. Michael, have you ever been in a con- text, and I know you have ’cause you’re very successful and you’ve done very well for yourself, have you ever been in a con- text where you’re with someone, some sort of mentor, some sort of person who you really look up to, and they’ve said to you, “Wow, Michael, really well done?”
michael fiore: Oh, yeah, yeah. Many times, many times. And you know, depending on who it is, it’s the biggest thrill in the world.
michael griswold: Exactly. That’s exactly right. And that is what moves a man. If you’re a golfer and you’re out and you’re playing golf, and Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson or whoever you like–we’ll leave Tiger’s indiscretions, you know, to the side–but somebody who is really great comes up to you and says, “Michael you’re really doing great. Your golf swing looks great.” How awesome is that?
michael fiore: It’s amazing.
michael griswold: Here’s what a woman needs to do. A woman simply needs to learn, well there’s inherent respect for that golfer, there’s inherent respect for your mentor who has been very accomplished and then if, when he bestows that respect on you, it’s a transference that is miraculously powerful.
michael fiore: And intoxicating in a lot of ways.
michael griswold: That’s exactly right.
michael fiore: You can float on it for days after that.
michael griswold: And here’s where I realized this. I was dat- ing this girl, I was going through a particularly low point in my life, there was a pretty life changing event that had taken place several years ago, this is actually where we met, and I was pretty low. Like I was living in a friend’s garage, I was driving and old Jeep that didn’t even have a top so when it rained I would just get poured on–
michael fiore: You just got wet, yeah.
michael griswold: Yeah, exactly. And I was pretty much just com- pletely messed up. And I met this girl at a Starbucks, and Michael, this girl was the cat’s meow. I mean, she was from a very wealthy family, very blue blood, fashionable to the nines, everywhere she went she just exuded this vulnerability, she exuded this desirability.
michael fiore: This openness to the world. Openness to the world.
michael griswold: Yes, this openness, this curiosity. So for what- ever reason, God only knows, we started hanging out and I obviously had a lot of respect for her; she came from a great family, she was very classy, she had great posture, she you know, all of these things. And we’re driving back after I had run my Jeep into a ditch, which is an embarrassing story, but we’re driving back and she turns to me and she goes, “Michael, I want you to know that I believe in you.”
michael fiore: Yeah, yeah.
michael griswold: I could have soared to the stratosphere from that. So the whole point is this, you earn a man’s respect and then you tell him that you respect him. And so it might look like this: “Hey baby, you know what? I know that you’ve been going through a lot at work and it’s been really chal- lenging, and I just want you to know I’m so proud of the way you’ve handled it. I’m so proud to call you my boyfriend, my husband, my man,” whatever.
michael fiore: You know, Michael, I want to stop you for a sec- ond, because I think a lot of women who are listening are saying, “Oh, that sounds so basic.” Right? And it reminds me of in my Text the Romance Back, I have a whole section on what I call “Appreciation Texts.” Right? And occasionally I’ll get emails from men or women saying, “Oh, that’s so sim- ple. You know, I could have figured that out myself.” Yeah, but you didn’t, and you’re not doing it. Right? You’re simply not doing it. People simply don’t take time to do this, and in my own relationship, my girlfriend, I remember one of the moments that I fell deeper in love with her was early on in our relationship, we were really just getting together, and we were totally into each other and she has this thing where she just tells me, “Michael you’re a really good man.” Right? How simple was that? How incredibly simple is that? But it shook me to my core.
michael griswold: Dude, I’m like 2,000 miles away from you and it moves me.
michael fiore: Yeah, yeah, but again, how simple is it? “You’re a really good man.” And for guys, what do guys want? We want to be seen as a good guy, as a good provider, as a powerful person, right? And it’s so simple. You know, women, some- times they assume men already know these things, or they think that men want the same things that women do, which is “I love you so much. Let’s talk, let’s have these really emo- tional conversations, blah, blah, blah.” When really, all a guy wants is his woman’s respect and appreciation.
And I want to tangent for a really brief moment here ’cause it’s something that came into my mind while you were talking, that you inspired, which is this concept of a woman having appreciation for her man’s passions, not contempt for them. Having appreciation for her man’s passions, not contempt for them, because what I see a lot in relationships. . . You know, for instance, this weekend I was at a parkour class, which is like this really cool, athletic jumping over things thing, with a friend of mine. I actually broke my toe doing it, but that’s okay, it’s a whole other thing. And a good friend of mine was there, and he was talking about, you know, a guy who I work out with regularly, and we’re both into doing Crossfit, we both take being physically fit very, very seriously. And he was telling me that his wife does not like that he’s as into the gym and going to Crossfit as he is. That she actually gets
angry about him scheduling life, to a certain degree, around this thing that he is really passionate for, right?
And it’s honestly, for women listening, it’s the absolute worst thing you can do. No matter what it is. Oftentimes women will look at a man’s passionate thing, a hobby he’s really pas- sionate about, even his job, and see it as the enemy. Right? They’ll see he loves bowling, he loves golf, he loves watching football, right, or he loves going to the gym, or he loves play- ing video games even. It’s so easy for women to look at video games as, like, this horribly childish thing, right? But he’s passionate about it, and if as a woman you can say “this is something you’re passionate about, and it makes you happy and I respect it”
michael griswold: Right.
michael fiore: Right. It can quite honestly transform your rela- tionship.
michael griswold: Dude, isn’t it. . . You’re so right dude. And isn’t it so adorable to see, maybe if on a Sunday afternoon, if you go and, like, watch football somewhere, isn’t it so adorable to see the girl there with the jersey on, and you know, just, she doesn’t give a rat’s petuski about football but she. . . What it says is that jersey and her cheering doesn’t say, “Hey, I love the New England Patriots.” It says “I love you, baby.”
michael fiore: And even though I don’t personally love this other thing, I love that you love it. I love that you’re passionate about it. One thing I talk about in my Secret Survey program is a huge mistake that women make, a huge mistake that ruins relationships in my opinion, which is they want to be their man’s number one priority.
michael griswold: Yeah.
michael fiore: Right? And I know this can be painful, because women who are listening, they’re like, “well, I should be. I’m his wife, I’m his girlfriend, I’m the mother of his children, I’m the woman he wants to spend his life with. I should be on his mind all the time. I should be his number one priority, the thing he cares about and loves and adores more than anything else in the world.” And it’s hard for me to tell women this, but you’re never going to be.
michael griswold: And you don’t really want to be.
michael fiore: And you shouldn’t be.
michael griswold: Yeah, here’s the thing you really don’t want to be. And you can prove this by thinking about this. Every woman on this call, every woman in existence has been in a situation where some guy just fawns–
michael fiore: Oh my god.
michael griswold: Fawns and fawns and “baby, what do you want me to do? Can I see you again? Can I see you again?” And how attractive is that? See, women don’t want to be the ob- ject of man’s full desire. They want to be a part of an adven- ture. They want to be the one who gets swept away on the adventure. They don’t want to be the adventure. That’s too much pressure, that’s too much expectation. They want to be swept away, and I’ll tell you this, the thing that every woman– if we could broadcast this across every woman’s computer, ra- dio, etc.–the amount of power that you have to create either a blissful relationship or a horrendous relationship. . . How many stories, how many anecdotes have you heard of men who have achieved greatness and then said “it’s because of my wife.”
michael fiore: Many.
michael griswold: It’s because of love and the support. But the other way goes just as well, you know. It’s you can crumble them by wanting too much.
michael fiore: And by having, again, having contempt for his pas- sions. No matter what, and this goes the other way too, women who are listening. If we were doing this call for men, we would be saying not quite the same thing, but similar things around how to support women and how to really be a great partner for women. But I think the key is, I know there are women who are listening who think about some of the stuff their men care about and hate what they care about right? Hate that, whatever it might be–fly fishing, hunting, whatever it’s going to be–men are always going to have those hobbies or those things they are really driven, almost ob- sessed by, right? And the worst thing you can do is look at those things as competition. They’re not competitions, right?
michael griswold: Yes, yes, exactly. They’re compliments, because passion doesn’t live in a box.
michael fiore: No.
michael griswold: So if I’m passionate, which I am–I love snow- boarding, I love personal development, I really love interacting with people, I love seeing people get it, right? And that pas- sion, the more that I feel that, the more I feel in every area of my life. So you know, in the relationship with a girl that I’m dating, the more passion that I feel about any one thing, it’s going to benefit her as well. But if she’s trying to short circuit that, well, you know, it just doesn’t work.
michael fiore: That’s really interesting because it reminds me, when I do my surveys to my list and I asked, one of the questions
I got was, “Where does male malaise come from?” Right? Women will sometimes talk about, you know, “when I met this man, when we first got married he was so passionate, he was so driven, and now several years later, after a couple of kids and a job he doesn’t like and all these responsibili- ties, why does he just come home and watch TV at night? Why doesn’t he want to sleep with me anymore? Why doesn’t he have that drive anymore?” And I think part of that, you know, there’s a lot of reasons, a lot of guys are just miserable in their lives. They don’t feel that they have power, they don’t’ feel like they have control over what’s going on, but I think it’s also they had to give up the things they were passionate about. Those other things, outside of their women, outside of their relationship, right? Family and responsibility override everything else. Like, I remember, my girlfriend–and again I adore my girlfriend–
michael griswold: You are awesome, Michael, you are awesome.
Keep going.
michael fiore: Thank you. But like one of the things I teach women is that you should not be your man’s top priority, but you should be in the top three, generally speaking. If you’re in the top three, you’re doing pretty damn well. Like, if you’re number three, that’s actually the perfect place to be. Like my own girlfriend, she knows that my business, which is around relationships, is extremely important to me. You know, when I talk about it, I’m passionate about it, right?
michael griswold: Obviously.
michael fiore: Like, fitness, music, games, reading, all these are other things that I’m extremely passionate about, and she would never ask me to give those up. Now she might say, “Hey, Thursday night is date night.” And out of respect for her, I’ll leave my phone at home, I won’t talk about work, I focus on her, we have a great night. Right? But we can make Thursday night into that special night where we’re going to be really together and connected because she’s not constantly saying, “Well, why are you doing this?” You know, when I say “hey, I’m playing poker with my friends on Monday night,” she’s like “well great, have a fantastic time.” Right? Not “well, can you do this with me instead?” over and over again.
michael griswold: Or, even worse, say “oh, okay” and then–
michael fiore: Yeah, and be mad about. . . Actually, I know that
when I’m sitting there with my friends and they get the phone
call from the girlfriend, right, or the wife, and they get that soft tone in their voice, “hey honey, how you doing? Oh yeah, I’ll be home. . . I’m not sure when. . . I’ll be home at like. . . I’m not sure when I’m going to be home. Well, we’re playing the game. Well. . . ” and then he hangs up the phone. “Yeah, I got to make sure I’m out of here by eleven.” And it’s, like, basically all you do at that point is you’ve cut your man’s balls off and put them on the poker table, and I just won them from him. Right? With my full house of having a girlfriend who respects and appreciates me instead of having contempt for how I want to spend my time as a man.
michael griswold: Yeah, yeah. So man– michael fiore: Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.
michael griswold: I think there’s really two critical points of dis- tinction here, and one is that, you know, in order to create the kind of relationship that you want, you got to stop listening to people who advise these kinds of stratagems, these games and–
michael fiore: “How to catch a man,” you know. How to catch a man. What is he, a puppy?
michael griswold: Is he a fish?
michael fiore: Yeah, are you going to put him fishbowl and hold on to him?
michael griswold: An aquarium? And then, you know, I want to, if it’s alright with you, Michael–
michael fiore: Please.
michael griswold: I want to give the women on this call just some- thing to consider, and it’s something that I’ve been evolving as I’ve been doing this work for some time now, so this is the product of a number of years of research and development, and every woman that I have told this to has just found this to be profoundly insightful. So is it alright if I share that?
michael fiore: No, please do! Go for it.
michael griswold: So I. . . In the realm of relationships, I’ve di- vided women up into three different categories, right? And this is not categories as who they are, but based on their be- havior. And every woman on this call will be able to recognize each one of these. Your friend’s probably been into one of them.
So one is the needy girl, and I call her “The Leech,” right? Everybody knows the needy girl. Okay, so she might be fun at first, she gets a boyfriend and then all of a sudden, boom! Oh my gosh, when are we going to go out, and. . . You know, just needing his approval, needing this validation, and it’s ex- hausting. It’s exhausting for both parties. It’s exhausting for the woman because she’s insatiable with her desire, and it’s exhausting for the man because he can’t seem to do anything right.
michael fiore: And needing assurance from him. Again, I talk about this in my program. About how horrible it is for a man to tell a woman you love her, to tell a woman you appreciate her, to tell a woman you want to fuck her and she’s gorgeous and sexy and all these things, and have her not believe you or not react to that.
michael griswold: Right.
michael fiore: I harp on this a lot. It’s one of the most emascu- lating things a woman can do.
michael griswold: That’s exactly right. And when you’re bleeding a guy dry with demands and expectations, then you really rob his vitality to want to fuck you.
michael fiore: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
michael griswold: And guys want to take, I mean we’re hunters, we want to seduce. We want to pursue. We want to make you surrender. We want to make you give yourself up, almost, almost against your will.
michael fiore: Well, actually, let’s take a second here. I mean this is, this goes into sexual fantasy. And we were talking about this before you and I started recording, around how many men do have the sexual fantasy of seduction, right? And why that is because men want to feel powerful. Right?
michael griswold: Right.
michael fiore: And in my programs I talk a lot about how men almost never are made to feel desirable themselves in rela- tionships. It’s very rare that a man is actually made to feel sexy by a woman. Which is something I’m working against, personally. I want more men to feel sexy ’cause I think it’s really cool. But. . . I kind of lost my train of thought there for a little bit, but–
michael griswold: We were talking about sexual fantasies and how men want.
michael fiore: Yeah, yeah, about the surrender concept.
michael griswold: Right.
michael fiore: I don’t. . . To be a little funny here, I don’t want France to surrender, you know? There’s that whole cliché about France giving up during World War II and it being really easy, right? I want America to surrender. I want Russia to surren- der. I want, you know, a man does not want to get. . . I actually remember one time when I was single and I was sleeping with a lot of women, right, I was going out there and I was seducing girls and I was having a great time.
michael griswold: Scoundrel!
michael fiore: Well yeah, I’m a horrible, horrible, horrible per- son. Yes, I know. I will say I never got any complaints in all of the women I was with, we were always very open with, about “here’s what I want.” We had a great time, we had fantastic sex, and we’re still friends. But I remember one girl in partic- ular who found me to be the single most sexually attractive person she’d never met in her life. Right? And she would, I would get within five feet of her, and her brain would turn off and she would turn into a kind of a, a slut, essentially. She was a lovely girl. Like, you know, I’m pro-slut. If you want to be a slut, you can be a slut. I think you should warn. . . But it was really fun at first, right? But at a certain point it stopped being as much fun for me.
michael griswold: Right.
michael fiore: Because I didn’t have to work for it. At all. Now I’m not saying a woman should ever deny sex, or, you know, should use sex as a bartering tool or anything like that, right? But I am saying that a man has to feel like he’s getting you. And that you’re something worth earning, and that you’re something worth seducing. And that when you surrender it’s a big deal, you know?
michael griswold: Yeah.
michael fiore: It’s a satisfying goal to have achieved to get you to surrender, to get you sexually, turn you into this woman who is wanton and desirous and just, you know, humming with vitality and humming with desire for it. Right?
michael griswold: Dude, you couldn’t be more right. You know, when I was dating this one girl and we had this back and forth relationship, right? And a big reason for that was because we would break up and, you know, I never. . . We just had volatile relationship. But when we would break up, then the idea–and everybody on this call get this, because this is power, this is powerful–when we would break up, the idea in my head was “can I still have her?”
Now I don’t want you to make any judgments on the morality of “is that right, is that wrong,” that’s not the point here. And you can totally think I’m a terrible person, that’s fine. But get the benefit for yourself, which is that me wanting to have her surrender, me wanting to seduce her and have her open herself and penetrate her defenses, was absolutely powerful. And I would, and I would go over and I would do anything that it took–
michael fiore: You would crawl over broken glass, right?
michael griswold: That’s exactly right.
michael fiore: To get here again. To. . . And there’s a little bit of evil to it, right? There’s a little bit of darkness to it, to a degree. Getting a little feedback on my line here, but there’s a little bit of, like, wanting to have that thing that you’re not supposed to have. Right?
michael griswold: Yeah, yeah. Well it’s, I think what it is, is you. . . When that happens, everybody loves these movies that are just so seductive. What happens in that situation, when I wonder “can I have her?” my conscious brain is done. It’s my limbic brain, it’s the unconscious part of me, that yearns. And what woman doesn’t want to be yearned for? What women doesn’t want to be just so absolutely wanted that I will, you know, do whatever it takes in order to make it happen?
So that’s one, right? That’s the needy girl. And the needy girl doesn’t ever get to experience that. The needy girl doesn’t, “The Leech” doesn’t ever get to experience a guy who just longs for her. Who thinks about her and instantly is aroused.
michael fiore: Because most of the time with needy girl, I’ll tell the women who are listening, when the guy thinks of you he thinks of a job.
michael griswold: Exactly. Michael, that’s so exactly right. It’s an obligation, it’s just not enjoyable, and you know, nobody likes sex as an obligation. Or love, as a point of fact.
Now let’s juxtapose that with the other end of the spectrum, and the other end of the spectrum is the exact opposite, which is “The Bitch.” And I mean this not as an insult, I mean it as a matter of clarification, and everybody knows this girl, right? So I live in Denver, and there are plenty of beautiful women here, and I went out to this very posh kind of hang- out. And me and my buddies were there, we were just having a good time, and I noticed there was this group of seven to ten women, Michael, all dressed to the nines, all stunning, all absolutely beautiful and all single. And if you talk to them, they’ll tell you all guys are assholes. All guys just want sex.
But here’s the thing, and for women listening to this, get this. If you’re inclination is to be unobtainable, if your inclination is to be unapproachable, if you’re going to make a guy work so hard and kind of have that, you know, that air of “you can’t have me,” here’s what you do. You set up a context where you make yourself the prize, you make yourself the conquering. Okay? So what happens is for a guy, automatically, he thinks “oh, you think I can’t have you?” and for guys who are good at seduction, they do have you. They penetrate through all those defenses and then once they have you sexually, then the games over. So–
michael fiore: Michael, it’s actually important that we throw in a distinction here, because a second ago we were talking about how we want women to make us work for it to a degree, right, and make them a prize. And now you’re saying that by mak- ing a woman, by a woman making herself the prize she is hurting her chances of having a real relationship. I under- stand the distinction here, but can you talk to that distinction a little bit? About what the actual difference is there?
michael griswold: I will. I think it will be most helpful to illumi- nate in the third–
michael fiore: Okay. Great.
michael griswold: But just for understanding’s sake, this cate- gory, the bitchy kind of unobtainable girl. . . I mean, there is moderation in everything, and so the girl who is wanting to be so hard to get that a guy has to make all this effort, you create this context where all he wants to do is fuck you. Once he does, then there’s nothing, there’s nothing else. There’s no foundation for anything else. So now, I’m glad you brought that up–
michael fiore: Actually this speaks a little bit, before you move on, this speaks a little bit to a complaint I have from women sometimes. “Why does he work so hard to seduce me? To woo me? To talk to me about emotional things? Look deep in my eyes and take me out to all these wonderful places? To do all these things before he either gets to fuck me or gets me to be his girlfriend or whatever else, but doesn’t do any of that afterwards?” Right?
michael griswold: This is the answer. It’s because if you’ve, and look, I’m a firm believer that women set the context of the interaction because that’s just the way that it is, and men operate within that context. And so you, as a woman, create the context for a man to operate within. And by creating this context you set yourself up for failure.
So the third category is what I call just “The Vulnerable Woman.”
And that woman is. . . See, the thing about the bitchy woman is that she’s so concerned about getting hurt that she’s go- ing to fight you off, fight you off, fight you off. It’s not that she’s being, making herself a prize, she’s just reacting. She’s trying to keep herself from getting hurt. She’s trying to be protected, she’s trying to protect herself. And that is the in- authenticity. The “Vulnerable Woman,” on the other hand, is able to freely make herself unobtainable in a sense, make herself willing to be worked for without the edge of “that’s all there is.” So there’s still this pursuit. There’s still this mys- tique, which is absolutely fantastic, but there’s an invitation to come and get through it. There’s an invitation, there’s an openness. The distinction between “The Bitchy Girl” and the “Vulnerable Girl” is that there’s no invitation with “The Bitchy Girl.” It’s all guarded. It’s all hands up.
michael fiore: And it becomes aggressive for guys, right?
michael griswold: Oh yeah.
michael fiore: It becomes like, you know, like football or some- thing like that. “Oh, that bitch is putting up her hand and she thinks she’s all hot. She’s wearing that dress and she’s dissing every guy here. I’m going to prove that. . . ”
michael griswold: That’s exactly right.
michael fiore: “I’m going to prove that I can master her.”
michael griswold: You hit the nail right on the head.
michael fiore: And I think with the “Vulnerable Woman,” what you’re saying is it’s not about being unattainable, right? So we were talking about that concept of being unattainable, putting that forward, it’s not that a vulnerable woman makes herself seem unattainable but she makes herself or she is, truly is, a woman who is worthy of being earned and worked for. Right?
michael griswold: Yes.
michael fiore: It’s not that she’s putting up a game at that point. It’s not that she’s putting up some idea of, like, you know, I’m like some hot for tottot thing. It’s a woman who is, again going back to confidence–which is what this call is on a meta level about–it’s a woman who is confident enough in herself and realizes that she is a prize.
michael griswold: Yes.
michael fiore: Right. That she is a woman who is worth being pursued. A woman who is worth being earned, and a woman who a man can earn again and again and again. Right?
michael griswold: Yeah, it’s not a protection, it’s not a fake front, it’s “this is who I am.” So how do you do this right? Because I know that the women on the call, I know that you. . . Like, concepts are great and you know all that and it’s great fodder, but what does it really mean?
Well first of all, it means in real behavior that one, you have to be willing to go above all of the stories that you have, all of these defenses that “I don’t want to get hurt,” and just get over this notion. Get over this illusion of not getting hurt.
michael fiore: Because you are going to get hurt. You are–
michael griswold: Yeah, and there’s this. . . It’s almost as if not getting hurt is the god, it’s the zeitgeist, god of the age, right?
“I don’t want to get hurt!” And if you achieve that somehow, you’ve achieved nirvana. Let’s just get rid of that, and instead replace it, right, because we need to replace it with some- thing, with “I’d rather be satisfied.” Instead of “I don’t want to get hurt,” “I would just rather be satisfied.”
michael fiore: It reminds me of the whole concept “would you rather be right or would you rather get what you want?” Or “would you rather be right or would you rather be happy,” you know? When people are fighting and they’re like, “I need him to admit that I was right,” well, you can do that or you can just choose to be happy. You can just choose to realize that being right is not that important.
michael griswold: And listen, for all of you that are listening to the call, you know I’ve experienced this in my own life, when I’m, you know, learning something and I think, “Oh man, you know, I am the only one that’s like that, and I suck, and
I. . . you know, there’s no hope for me.” Listen, it’s just sci- entifically true that there’s nothing that human beings nat- urally want more than to be right. There’s nothing that is more motivating to a person, naturally, than to be right. And that’s why you see, Michael, all of these relationships where they just are terrible. Because each person is focused on be- ing right. So for you, sweetheart, that you are listening to this call and you desperately and genuinely–and I mean des- perately as a means of strength–you really want to create a relationship where you get to give all that you have, ’cause I know that you have a lot, and you want to receive it in return. In order to do that the first thing is this. The first thing that’s required is to give up being right. You don’t need to be right. And I’ll tell you a quick story, right?
michael fiore: Please.
michael griswold: So I have a few products, and I got an email from a girl who was very unhappy with me.
michael fiore: Oh, okay. Great.
michael griswold: And she just went on for several paragraphs–
michael fiore: I can’t believe you read the whole email.
michael griswold: Well, you know, I was curious, because I wanted to find out what this girl’s angle was.
michael fiore: Sure.
michael griswold: And what I realized was, and you know, this particular girl is, you know, lambasting me and saying that my product was no good, while–and I know this because of the story–she’s dating a guy who is married. And you know, ac- cused me of all of this in-authenticity and, you know. . . which is totally fine. And what I realized was, it’s so important to this girl to be right and she’s absolutely miserable.
So you can be right if you want, but it’s not going to get you what you want. So the first thing is to give up being right and that takes some practice, honestly. It takes, because you’re used to, you know, however old you are, you’ve been practicing being right for that long.
michael fiore: And fighting to be right. Fighting for that satisfac- tion of “well, I’m right” over and over again. Yup.
michael griswold: And the fact is, is that there’s only one way to win an argument and that is by losing. And if you can get that, right, if you can get that there’s only one way to win the argument and that is by losing, then you’re well on your way.
So if you’re single and you’re wanting to attract the man that you want, first of all don’t do any of this dumb shit. Don’t do any of these dumb games, because first of all they get tire- some, and two they’re just built on in-authenticity.
michael fiore: Yep.
michael griswold: And two, as. . . I’m going to say something that you’re going to want to dismiss, but I’m going to invite you to just sit with it. Be you. Don’t be, don’t try to be what you think a guy wants you to be. Because first of all, that’s, there’s no way that you know that, and two, you’re just spin- ning the wheels trying to be someone else. And instead, be who you are and here’s what I mean. We all know people who, you probably know somebody who’s kind of weird, right?
michael fiore: Yeah, I believe myself, I’m kind of weird, you know, but I hide it well so–
michael griswold: Social awkward. I used to be in the Navy. I have a friend who is the most social awkward man I ever met. I would say, “Oh Brett, what’s going on?” and he would liter- ally look at me for like five to ten seconds without replying. He would put his eyes, like, he would move his eyes around, and then he’d be like “good.” He was so weird. He kind of creeped me out.
michael fiore: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
michael griswold: He became one of my best friends because he was so authentic. All of his quirks became things I just liked about him. So be okay with that, because that, those things that you’re so afraid of, those things that are so embarrassing to you, are the things that are going to be so adorable to the man that you want. Does that make any sense?
michael fiore: It does but I can hear the objection, right? I can hear the objection from single women in particular, which is going to be “but Michael and Michael, if I’m myself he’s going to realize that I’m neurotic. He’s going to realize that I have low self esteem. He’s going to realize that I’m not that cool. He’s going to realize blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and he’s not going to like me. He’s not going to be attracted to me. You know, I’ve been myself when I’ve gone out before and I’ve been at a bar and I’ve met guys and I’ve gone on these dates and I’ve been myself and it hasn’t worked. Or the guys that I’m attracting are not the guys that I want at that point.” And what you would say to that?
michael griswold: Well, first of all I’d say that the being your- self as a, you know, she need to come up with another term because–
michael fiore: Well I think the key is, like, being yourself does not mean being satisfied with the things you don’t like about yourself, right?
michael griswold: Yeah.
michael fire: That you objectively don’t like about yourself. I hate low self esteem, right? I think people are. . . In another call I was talking about how I think humbleness is more toxic than anything else and people need to own, you need to “own” your awesome. Right? And women in particular need to own their awesome and be like here’s. . . And these days, you know, when you look at actual statistics, women are significantly more awesome than most men, right? Women are the ones who are making really, really cool stuff happen. But it doesn’t mean just, like, looking. . . Like me, personally, I’ve done a ton of personal development over the last ten years. If I. . . You know ten years ago when I was in my early twenties we’d be on this call, and I was a self loathing, skinny, angry person who couldn’t walk up and talk to any woman, right? And hadn’t even, just couldn’t do anything, right?
michael griswold: Yeah.
michael fiore: And over the years I haven’t, like, changed who I am, I haven’t played a lot of games, but I’ve learned how to be the better version of me, right? I’ve learned how to be the me that I’ve always wanted to be. I’ve learned how to take that core concept of who I personally am and accept myself enough
to have confidence, to have drive. To be like, you know, I’m a big hairy, weird, fast-talking guy with ADHD, right? It’s who I am, right? And I own that, and it’s been very successful for me because I take what you’ve got and you use it. As opposed to trying to deny it. You work on your strengths as opposed to your weaknesses. Right?
michael griswold: And it doesn’t, the whole idea of being yourself doesn’t mean that you just, you know, become a limp like–
michael fiore: It doesn’t mean giving up
michael griswold: It doesn’t mean, like, you just put all of your faults on the table. Oh, you know, I need to, you know, do these things in order to be better. It means being authentic, being legit. Not trying to impress. And I’ll make the point, I think very clearly this way. Any woman who has been ap- proached by a guy from the Jersey Shore who thinks he’s so cool and so awesome and “I make so much money and I’ve got such a huge penis and I drive such a great car,” how attrac- tive is that to you? See, it’s no different the other way. Every woman, every woman wants a man who comes up and says, “Hey, how’s it going? What’s your name?” And feels legit.
Now you might have the objection “well, that doesn’t work and I don’t attract the guys that I want.” Well you’re going to attract the guy that you want that way rather than trying to put on this show that’s inevitably going to, the gig’s up at some point and you know, then you’ve kind of got this trick.
michael fiore: To me it really all comes down to knowing your- self and accepting yourself, really. And accepting the vari- ous things that are about you, the good and the bad. And, you know, knowing who you are and knowing, like, just like, something I’m big on is not really care if people think too much. Know who you are, accepting who you are and being fine with that no matter what. Right? This is who you are, it’s okay. I actually think finding happiness is knowing who you are to a very large degree. Knowing that you’re not.
You know, I used to have a problem with jealousy sometimes. Not like romantic jealousy, but professional jealousy. When I was younger, I would be like “oh, this other guy’s younger than me, he’s making more money, and blah, blah, blah” right? And that would be an issue for me. And then at a certain point I thought, “You know what? That’s not what
I want to be doing or who I am or what gives me integrity or what gives me energy.” And once you kind of understand yourself. . . For one thing it’s extraordinarily attractive to men to see a woman who truly understands who she is and accepts who she is and is not just running from you know, ridiculous workout to ridiculous workout to try to attain some unattain- able ideal body that blah, blah, blah. Right?
michael griswold: Yeah. Look I know dozens of very, very beau- tiful, very, very successful, very, very sexy, I mean just in- credible bodies and very, very single women. And they’re so enamored with their own image, Michael, so enamored with “I want to look like this, I want to be like this, I want to act like this” that there isn’t room for a man. There’s only room for someone who, there’s only room for another image. Do you understand?
michael fiore: It’s almost like an accessory, right?
michael griswold: Yeah.
michael fiore: It’s like relationship as an accessory. It’s like well, I’ve got my Prada handbag and my cool shoes and now I need the boyfriend.
michael griswold: Right. Can you see that all you create there is a charade. You’re both pretending. And look, if that’s what you want to do, then do it. But just do it recognizing that that’s what you’re going to do. Now if you want to create a relationship, and I know that you do, I know that you want to have a satisfying relationship, then you do it in a way that works.
Now to use an analogy, do you want someone to build you a house in 45 minutes because it’s easier and it’s quicker? Or do you want them to take their time to build it? Well for you, then try, no, be willing to consider that the amount of time it takes isn’t the biggest issue, it’s the quality of what you are building and attracting. And I’m going to tell you, if you take the advice that Michael is giving you and the advice on this call and go out and put it to the test, be a woman who is willing to put aside all of your fears, all of that “I don’t want to get hurt” nonsense, just put it aside for a couple of weeks and just give it a shot, you’ll find that the quality of man that you attract is a billion times better than the quality of man that you attract who just wants to get in your pants, tell you what you want to hear, and then end up making you feel cheap and used.
michael fiore: And most guys do just want to get in your pants. I mean, that’s kind of a sad truth, at least at first.
michael griswold: Well, I mean listen, going back to that girl that I told you about who, you know, the girl that just had such an impact on me–
michael fiore: Yeah, yeah.
michael griswold: Dude, I didn’t want to get into her pants, I wanted to ravish her. I mean, there have been girls where I’ve just wanted to like, you know, let’s go home, let’s get naked, let’s do it.
michael fiore: Sure, yeah, yeah.
michael griswold: This girl, I wanted to ravish her. I mean, dude, we would be together and every moment spent with her in- creased my desire for her. It was desire under control, like it wasn’t like, it wasn’t like I was even trying to sleep with her. I was building the anticipation. Building the desire, building that longing and every moment just made me want to ravish her even more. Now I would guess that every woman in the world would rather be ravished than fucked.
michael fiore: Depends on the day, but yeah, overall. Yeah, yeah. And again I think what makes her so ravishable is that con- fidence, that vulnerability, that not, that not needing you.
michael griswold: That’s right.
michael fiore: That not needing a man, not needing, not having her self-image be a reflection off of you. Right? Many, many women base their self image of a reflection of their husband, their boyfriend, off men in general or off other people in gen- eral. “How I think about myself” is based on how other people see me. Right? As opposed to how I think about myself as based on how I think about myself, and what I am and what I want to be, the story I tell myself about who I am. If you think of. . . I meant the women. . . I know so many beautiful, confi- dent, you know, beautiful, intelligent, amazing women who don’t see themselves that way, right? They let themselves be- lieve the lie of “I’m not skinny enough. I’m not tall enough. I’m not successful enough. I’m not blah, blah, blah enough.”
michael griswold: “My boobs aren’t big enough.”
michael fiore: “My boobs aren’t big enough.” Right? It’s like. . . I’m a guy, right. You know there are some guys who are boob guys but the rest of us, it’s not that important. Right? It’s one thing out of the matrix of who you are.
michael griswold: I’m going to tell you something that is abso- lutely true and I’m sure that you’ll agree with me, that the thing that is seductive about a woman isn’t the size of her boobs, or the size of her ass, or the length of her legs. The thing that is seductive about a woman is her essence. And for the women that are listening, the way to get what you want is to continue to practice, continue listening to the stuff that Michael’s telling you. Continue allowing his, these ideas and this philosophy and this way of life to infiltrate your mind and replace all of the things that have been filling it. All of the, you know, the gossip and the man hating that women do, and all of the excuses. Instead allow stuff that is good for you, like the stuff that Michael is teaching, to replace that, and I will tell you what, in 6 months, 18 months, 2 years you’re going to look back and you’re going to write
michael fiore: a thank you letter. And you’re going to say “you know what? I was listening to what you taught, I was reading your emails, and I thought it was total bullcrap but I did it. And because I did it I’m in love with a man who cherishes me, who adores me, and who wants to pursue me. Thank you.” That’s what you’re going to find if you do it.
michael fiore: And more what I want for the women who, you know, are on my list and use my programs is to have that stillness and confidence. And to have that ability to be in their life, whether in a relationship or not, and be happy in it. And, you know, be like that calmness in the middle of the river, as opposed to being buffeted around by the waves all the time, emotionally. To be accepting of your emotions, to be accepting of your desire, to be accepting of men and to, to be accepting of men for men. And be accepting of yourself for being a woman. Right?
michael griswold: Yeah.
michael fiore: There, I think that you know, it’s fine, you’re a woman, that’s wonderful. I love women. Men love women, right? And smart men love women for being women not lov- ing women for being some weird ideal that doesn’t’ exist.
michael griswold: Completely agree.
michael fiore: Well golly, Michael we’ve covered a ton in our time here and I think–
michael griswold: Has this been helpful?
michael fiore: It’s been helpful to me, and you know, I think some of the concepts we’ve talked about have been kind of aston- ishing and even some material, just the way you got my own brain sparking. I was actually taking notes while we were talking about some ideas that I want to develop further. Like the appreciation for his passions as opposed to having con- tempt for them, things like that. What you were talking about the three types of women, and particularly that concept of vulnerability and what that concept of vulnerability means, and receptiveness means as a woman. How men are so at- tracted to a woman who is open and receptive to him, recep- tive to his masculine essence, receptive to his energy without being needy, without being, you know, a succubus vampire the entire time, an emotional vampire the entire time, right?
I think it’s very deep, deep stuff and is really very, very com- plimentary to the material that I gave them in the Secret Sur- vey, as well. I mean, I think this really hammers home a lot of those core ideas around, you know, accepting who men are and being who you truly are and not playing games. Right? Those games, like Michael was saying before, the games, you know, the rules or you know, Why Men Marry Bitches and things like that. I don’t personally think marriage should be the goal. Right? If you want to get married, if you have that dream, if you have the American Dream of getting married and having a couple kids, that’s fine. But the goal should be to have a good relationship, right? The goal should be to have, the goal actually should be to be happy, right? To wake up every day with whatever relationship you’re in and be happy in that moment and build from there. As opposed to having the goal be, you know, we all know these women that make list. “Well I want to be married by the time I’m 28 and I want to have my first baby by the time I’m 30 and we’re going to buy our house in the Hamptons, we’re going to do this, we’re going to do this.” It’s never going to happen that way.
michael griswold: And they’re miserable.
michael fiore: They’re miserable. And honestly the American Dream is a lie.
michael griswold: To add as an asterisk to the idea of, you know, the goal being happy, I agree and the goal of being happy and feeling significant, feeling–look, I’m a big believer in the idea that people want nothing more, nothing more than significant connection. You know, even doing this call, Michael, right, and us just talking through these things, it is immensely pleasurable to me and the reason is because we connect.
michael fiore: Yeah.
michael griswold: We have this similar mind set, we are similarly ambitious dudes and similarly ambitious for helping other people. And we cannot, cannot connect if you’re faking. You can’t do it. You can’t. . . Well, you can appear to do it, but you can’t get the benefits of that significant connection without being for real.
michael fiore: Without having integrity of who you are. And with- out respecting who you are. You know, you were talking be- fore about how men want respect from their women, which I think is huge. I think it’s incredibly huge and it’s, I know so many men who feel belittled by their partner, right? By the ball buster, and it’s not even that the women, I don’t usu- ally blame women for this, I usually think that if a man, a woman has contempt for her man it’s oftentimes cause the man’s. . . well A, she has to understand herself well enough and B, the man has to understand himself well enough to give her the attention that she actually needs, right? When I teach guys I teach them this all the time. But oftentimes the women does need to kind of take the lead in this kind of thing, but you also have to have respect for yourself. You need to understand that you, that no matter what the man in your life does, no matter how he reacts to you, whether he shows you he loves you, sweeps you off your feet or fails to, cheats on you, does all these other things, that is not about you. That does not reflect on who you are. You need to have an image of yourself that is separate from his reaction to you.
michael griswold: Yeah, and you know what you just said brought a distinction that I wanted to mention earlier which is the distinction between the unobtainable “Bitchy Girl” and the “Vulnerable Woman.” The unattainable “Bitchy Girl” has one boundary, and that is the boundary of getting in. Once you get in, you’ve got no boundaries. The “Vulnerable Woman” doesn’t have a boundary to getting in. All of her boundaries are within your interaction. So when you meet a girl who’s like the “Bitchy Girl” once you bypass that very thin veneer of defense, well then, you know, there’s nothing there, there’s no boundaries, there’s no self respect.
michael fiore: And usually you’re in crazy town at that point. michael griswold: Oh my god. Not that I’ve ever experienced it. michael fiore: No, no, never, never, yeah.
michael griswold: But–
michael fiore: None of us have ever been with a model quality girl who turns out to be crazy.
michael griswold: Yeah. And then the “Vulnerable Woman” is the woman who has an open door on the front and boundaries once you get in. So there are certain things that she will accept and that she won’t. And it’s okay. And those are the things that are, Michael, those are the things that are so lack- ing, because so many women are fed this nonsense from the friends who are dissatisfied.
michael fiore: From Cosmo
michael griswold: From Cosmo, who wants–
michael fiore: By the way, guys, Cosmo just wants to sell you more issues of Cosmo.
michael griswold: Yeah, well Cosmo wants to sell you more issues of Cosmo so that they can sell their advertisements to all of the stuff inside.
michael fiore: I will admit myself, I do want to sell you more products as well. I want to sell you training programs, but I want to do that by helping you evolve to higher levels.
michael griswold: Yeah if the things that you’re selling aren’t help- ful, well then that’s just not going to work.
michael fiore: Yeah.
michael griswold: But the things that you’re selling are helpful, and as I said before, it’s the type of thing where, look man, we all have those seminal moments where we look back and we say “this was something that really put me in the right direc- tion,” and your stuff, Michael, the stuff that you’re teaching these women is that type of thing. It’s the kind of thing that allows them to look back and say, “Man, I’m so glad I ran across this guy’s email or website because man, it really did change the way that I lived my life and now I’ve got a lot more satisfaction as a result.”
michael fiore: And a lot more happiness and a lot more calmness and a lot more sex and a lot more fun and a lot more enjoy- ment of the people in your life and–
michael griswold: b A lot more ravishing
michael fiore: Ravishing, like really, really good sex instead of that disconnected whatever that’s kind of going on there. And love the concept of ravishment. I love the concept. . . One thing I talk about in the program is the, a man’s darker de- sires that a man has, right? And we’ve touched on that a little bit. We’ve talked about how men want to, you know we all have it. I think you and I, Michael, we both are pretty evolved guys, right? We’re both guys who understand women, we respect women, love women, can talk to women. And I’ll tell you, just like any guy, we’ve got really, really dark sexual fantasies. Right?
michael griswold: Totally.
michael fiore: And they’re there and that’s, is that a big deal? No. Right? I think so many women, they can’t seem to accept that a man can both be a great lover, a great husband, a great dad, and also have these really dark ideas going on in the back of his head.
michael griswold: Dude, dude you just reminded me of this awe- some story. So I was out last night with a buddy of mine, right? And he’s kind of going through a tough time, what- ever. So we went out and had a cigar and, you know, there’s this girl there, and bro, her legs looked like they went, her legs were like Jacob’s Ladder. They just went to the heavens, right? And she was wearing these, like, really short shorts, she had just come from this water park, and you know, I told her, I was like, “Sweetheart, your legs are just. . . ”
michael fiore: Amazing.
michael griswold: They’re hurting me.
michael fiore: Yeah, yeah.
michael griswold: You know, and she’s like “yeah, I noticed you staring at them.” Which was awesome. And I was like, “Sweet- heart, listen, any girl who wears short that are that short don’t play games with me.”
michael fiore: Yeah.
michael griswold: You want me to stare at them.
michael fiore: Yeah, yeah.
michael griswold: At that point, she had nothing to say. And you know, there’s this idea, and this is a perfect example, that girl embodies the whole like “bitchy” idea. Right? You go in, and I’m going to show off these great legs and then when some- body remarks about them, I’m going to act like they’re being wrong. Right? And then let’s. . . I called her on her bullshit. There’s nothing, I mean she was there, there was nothing left for her to say because she had been found out.
michael fiore: It’s kind of like walking down the street in a Barney costume and getting mad when somebody mentions it. You know?
michael griswold: Right.
michael fiore: It’s like, “Nice Barney costume.” “What the hell’d you bring that up for?”
michael griswold: Yeah.
michael fiore: “There’s more to me than just my Barney costume.”
michael griswold: Well, don’t wear the Barney costume.
michael fiore: Yeah, kind of go from there. Yeah. It also reminds me of one concept that I have read about objectification by the way, which is, like, actually think objectification of women and of men is a positive thing. And you know, especially when you’re. . . I mean, of course we objectify. I mean, I think we can chat for awhile. This is really interesting stuff, so before we finish up, but yes, guys do objectify women. Right? And that’s a good thing. We’ve been doing it for millions of years now, right? And it’s how we propagate as a species, it’s how we overpopulated the planet, by objectifying women. Yes, we notice. The key is to. . . As a guy, what I teach guys is, is to objectify a woman and not be creepy about it. Right? Not be ashamed of your appreciation
michael griswold: That’s key right there.
michael fiore: Right. What most guys do, and I’m sure women can relate to this, you’ll catch that guy who’s, like, looking at you out of the corner of his eye and then looks away right away and is like, you know, hunched over like The Hunchback of Notre Dame and looks really ashamed of the fact that he’s checking you out. As opposed to just being a guy who’s like “yeah, I’m looking at ya. You’re very attractive, I like what I see. It causes a chemical stew in my brain, you know, it gives me a hard on,” it does whatever else. And that’s not a big deal, right? It’s just not. It’s a simple fact. You’re an attractive woman, I’m a guy, of course I’m going to be attracted to you.
And I also think that women could actually do well by ob- jectifying men more, right? By, this is something that I’ve discovered in myself and also in a lot of guys, I talk about this in my program, but I think it’s worth repeating, is the idea of most men are never objectified. Right? Most men are never objectified by women anyway. I live in Seattle, and it’s a very gay friendly city, there’s a lot of gay guys here in Seattle, and I remember the first time I was really hit on by a guy. And I’m secure enough in my own heterosexuality that it doesn’t really bother me, you know, I’m like, “okay that’s cool.” But the energy of it was amazing.
michael griswold: Right.
michael fiore: Now I don’t want to sleep with a guy. I’m a hetero- sexual guy, if I was gay I would go there, but I’m not unfortu- nately, or fortunately, or whatever. But the energetic transfer of having a man look at you with lust was really, really fasci- nating. And I realized that women never do that, and that if a woman can learn to do that, if a woman can learn to look at a man, particularly a man that she’s with, with actual lust sometimes, it’s insanely powerful.
michael griswold: Yeah, I was. . . So I live in Denver, as I said, and you’re absolutely right dude. And the other night we were up in Boulder, do you know the Avit Brothers?
michael fiore: Oh yeah, yeah, love them. Amazing stuff. Yeah.
One of my favorites, actually.
michael griswold: They were in concert at Boulder Theatre and me and my buddy, we go up there. We’re at this bar/restaurant and this girl, and I’ve never had this experience before in my life, I see her from across, you know, the place, and she like penetrates me with this gaze which I thought, I mean it was really hot but it was actually a little unnerving as well.
michael fiore: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
michael griswold: It was awesome. Dude, she walks over, says “hi” and puts her hand on my crotch.
michael fiore: So wait, Michael, are you sure you weren’t in a strip club?
michael griswold: This was not a strip club. This was a restau- rant, and I thought “wow,” and you know, it was a great open- ing, great conversation starter but you know that stuff just does not happen very often because of this kind of prudish idea. And I want to be clear because I don’t want women to get the wrong idea. I’m not suggesting that you be the aggressor, or that you be some sort of, like that men shouldn’t pursue you, or that it’s your responsibility, I simply bring that story up because it had an effect and it was very arousing.
michael fiore: Very much so but also I think it’s important to un- derstand, I tend to tell women to do that more in relation- ships. Right? With an actual man. There is some danger to doing that when you’re single, right?
michael griswold: Agreed.
michael fiore: Like doing that when you’re single, and I mean this is because of cultural things, right, this is not because of, I’m not against women being sexually aggressive, personally, and I think, but unfortunately in America particularly, acting like that to a lot of guys, they will go to a really negative place really quickly. Right? They will think “she’s a slut. She’s a prostitute.”
michael griswold: And you don’t get a lot of respect that way.
michael fiore: You don’t get a lot of respect that way. For a woman, if you want to use this when you’re single, it’s more about flirt-ing with a guy and then just being a little, you know, it’s more about how you look at him. It’s more about how you tease him to a certain degree, right? And maybe, when you’re having sex with a man, you know Devian Day’s a friend of mine, he has a great program on dirty talk, where he talks about that us- ing that dirty language that makes him feel sexy, that makes him feel desired. Talking about his cock, talking about him as a physical being, talking about what he’s doing to you and how it makes you feel is very powerful. Now Michael’s exam- ple very, very, powerful but again, be careful with that kind of thing. That kind of thing can definitely backfire with you. And that woman, you know, if you were single or whatever else, you might consider going somewhere with her, having sex with her but it’s not somebody, that would generally not be how you start a relationship.
michael griswold: Clearly not. Clearly not and I only bring it up as a juxtaposition of what we were talking about–
michael fiore: Yeah, very much so.
michael griswold: And talk about the whole sex thing, the thing that I think is really sexy when you’re having sex with a woman is her breathing.
michael fiore: Oh god, yeah.
michael griswold: Right? I mean I’ve, you know, been with women who just don’t say or do anything until, you know, the time comes and, you know, that there’s so much you can make a man feel so manly by simply breathing and expressing how well he’s doing. I mean look, the fact of the matter is, the most fragile thing in the world is a man’s ego and especially, especially when it comes to sex. Every guy thinks his penis is too small, hasn’t had enough experience, and he doesn’t know if he’s going to be able to get you off and he, you know, all of these things that they’ll never tell you.
michael fiore: “Are you actually enjoying this? Are you actually enjoying this? Oh my god, what am I doing? Are you lying to me? Is she faking her orgasm? What’s going on? Did I make her come? Can I make her come? What’s going on?”
michael griswold: Exactly. Is she even feeling this? And all of those things that they’ll never tell you because, you know, it’s just embarrassing for them. Those things you can, if you’re aware of them, man you can capture a man’s heart and make it a safe place for him.
michael fiore: And like again, going back to my “Darker Desires” concept, creating a place where he can be a man, right? I think most guys feel pretty emasculated in our culture at this point. Right? A lot of guys do any way. They feel, well, nice guys do I guess. Nice, smart, guys feel pretty emasculated because–
michael griswold: Could we say respectful guys?
michael fiore: Respectful guys, yeah. Guys who actually do be- lieve that women are equal to men. Right? Now I think men and women are equal but they’re very, very different.
michael griswold: Totally.
michael fiore: And we can, you know, how different is a whole other thing. I stay in the relationship and sex field, that kind of concept. But a lot of guys make the mistake of thinking, “Well, you know, we need to have this, it’s like a race to the bottom about how we treat each other.” We treat each other as sexless automatons all the time and, you know, work, and when you meet somebody etc, etc, etc and they’re like. . . Well it’s like the guy, I was talking to some female friend of mine a while ago, she was helping me with another program of mine, and she was talking to me about a guy she was dating here in Seattle. Really nice guy, but he was like, “Is it okay if I touch your breast?” Right? Which any woman who is listening goes “that is the least attractive thing I’ve ever heard in my en- tire life.” But men have been brainwashed in our culture into thinking that, you know, feminism and loving women, and ap- preciating women means desexualizing women. Right? And so a lot of men are scared. They’re like, “Well, I don’t know what to do. I can get in trouble if I ever, oh my god if I even admitted that I found that women attractive.”
michael griswold: Yeah.
michael fiore: Oh my god or the “yeah, I was looking at my coworker’s butt in her skirt.” Well, of course he was. You can’t ask him not to. Right?
michael griswold: Right.
michael fiore: It’s like it’s hard drive, hard wired primal, primal stuff there.
michael griswold: So Michael, what do the women who are on the call, what do they do when they are the recipient of that?
michael fiore: You gotta be, you know, it’s an interesting thing. It’s realizing, it’s internal game stuff to me, it’s inner game stuff to me. And it’s realizing that just because a man looks at you, looks at your body, right, in that way doesn’t really have anything to do with you as a person. Right? It’s not about who you are, it’s simply a reaction that he has.
Now of course, in the workplace, things like that, men do need to learn to be respectful, right? To not leer, to not make sexist comments, things like that. Right? But that does not mean taking sex and the concept of sex and the biochemical stew that is in our brains out of the equation, because it’s impossible to do. Right? A man is never going to be able to look at woman as an asexual creature. It simply is in effect. Instead, a better way to go is simply to acknowledge, “Yeah, I’m looking at you. Of course I am.” And if he could do it more openly, if a woman could be more just like “thank you for looking at me. I’m glad that you find that nice, but let’s move on.” Right? As opposed to being–
michael griswold: Yeah and–
michael fiore: –to being a big deal. Like depending on the context right, if it’s just out in the world. I mean, I know attractive women who tell me “yeah, we get checked out all the time and some guys are fine with it.” But what I do is, you know, I’m a big fan of the concept of being appreciative but not creepy. And simply being like, “yeah, you’re a very attractive woman, big deal.” Right? And I teach guys that, but the women need to do it as well. The women need to be able to take a man’s desire, and take a man’s appreciation, and be fine with it.
Now granted, there are lines that men can step over, there are some guys who are misogynistic dickwads out there, but there are also a lot of guys who try so hard not to come across as sexist.
michael griswold: Yeah, it’s hilarious.
michael fiore: That they emasculate themselves and they just make everything horrible. It’s like. . . yeah go ahead.
michael griswold: But you know, for girls who, and women, who get checked out a lot, which happens, couldn’t they use that as kind of ammunition? Couldn’t they feel that? And without judging who it’s coming from, right?
michael fiore: Yeah.
michael griswold: ’Cause like, your story about getting checked out by or getting hit on by the–
michael fiore: The gay guy, yeah. I live on Capitol Hill and I’m a 6’1″, 210 pound, hairy guy, all the time. So–
michael griswold: So, right, so you know the way that I see that is if I were in that situation and, you know, I dress kind of like a gay guy because I like fashion, so gay guys hit on me and I kind of think “yeah, awesome.”
michael fiore: Totally.
michael griswold: I just think “I’m a good looking dude,” or, you know, and so women who are hit on by guys, even if they don’t like them or whatever, can’t they use that as, like, stuff to build up their self esteem?
michael fiore: Very much so, very much so. They can just be like “listen, I got something going here.”
michael griswold: Absorb it or something.
michael fiore: And just because the wrong guy is doing it at any given time, well that’s not really the important part. It’s more just taking that energy, taking that energy that somebody’s giving you, and then also being willing as women to give that energy to guys sometimes, especially when you’re with them on the long term.
michael griswold: And finding out that I’m checking you out to make you feel sexy. Look the reason that a guy is checking you out is because you’re hot.
michael fiore: Yeah.
michael griswold: And you might not like him, you might, you know, not think that he’s cute or whatever, but you can dis- associate those two and just take the good from it and say “damn, I am hot.” And that is very attractive.
michael fiore: Very much so, and knowing that you’re hot, know- ing what you have going on, knowing what your assets are, right? Knowing what it is about. And again, like, you know women ask sometimes “what is a man first attracted to: my body, my mind or my soul?” It’s your body. Guys are visual, and we always are going to be attracted to a woman at the first on a physical, primal level and going on from there.
But just like, you know, own what you, you know, find things about your body that you love. Right? It can be hard for some women because it’s like “I don’t look like. . . ” who’s the current, you know, super model that’s out there, Kate some- thing. Kate Upton I think is the newest one, right? “I don’t look like her.” Well no, but you don’t have to. You simply have to know what it is about you that is hot, that you love. Right? And understand that men like all sorts of women, by the way.
Well Michael, we’ve covered, we have covered a ton, and I think we, you know, it’s interesting, we kind of, like, hit con- fidence from a lot of different levels, and it really comes down to self respect, self image, accepting yourself, loving yourself, accepting men and realizing–I talk about this in my program– it’s not really, you know, what men do isn’t really about you and your happiness, and your sense of self respect and your sense of self confidence and vulnerability can’t come from men. Right? It’s got to come from you, it’s got to come from who you are. You’ve got to be able to look at yourself and be like “I know who I am, I know what I am,” and to a guy that’s extraordinarily attractive.
michael griswold: And it has to come from practicing it.
michael fiore: Very much so.
michael griswold: It’s not a one-time thing. I mean, if you wanted to learn how to play the piano, you’re not going to sit down and start playing, you know, Beethoven’s 5th. You’ve got to practice it, and if it’s not important to you, well that’s fine, just don’t practice it.
michael fiore: Don’t do it. But don’t complain about it either, you know?
michael griswold: Yeah. It’s like just recognize, hey that’s not im- portant to me, I’d rather do this, and that’s fine. But if it’s important and, you know, learning from people like Michael and being able to practice the things that he’s teaching, man, it’s just absolute satisfaction gold.
michael fiore: Satisfaction gold. I like that, I like that. I keep Michael around to be my hype man for me so I don’t have to sell my stuff myself, but–
michael griswold: This is true.
michael fiore: Well thank you, I mean, I appreciate that. And also, you know, Michael’s programs themselves are freaking great. I’m sure you can tell from being on the phone with him for an hour and half now that we’ve been doing this. This man knows his stuff, and there’s nobody’s stuff who I recommend more besides my own stuff, which of course I recommend all the time. Fantastic material, quite simply, fantastic material, fantastic insight into relationships, fantastic insight into men for women, so really wonderful stuff.
So Michael I want to thank you so very much for being here today. Where can people, where can women learn more about you?
michael griswold: Yeah well, I’m working on a program now and I’ve got this idea. The idea is to, instead of creating, you know, a book or a program, I’ve got an idea of creating a small coach- ing group, and it would be an inclusive kind of thing. There would probably not be more than, I don’t know, 10 or 15 peo- ple and it would be calls that we have together as a group and my commitment to anyone who ended up being on it would be that you would be able to achieve what it is you want to achieve relationally by the time that we’re done. Probably be like a four-week program, and we’d be on the phone. You know there’d be one day of teaching, and then a Q and A ev- ery week, along with some material that you can download and all that.
Now the product is still in development, but if you want to get more information about it, if you want to you know, be aware of when it comes out you can go to the site, It’s called Don’t Date Douchebags, which is awesome. The purpose of this program is really to take, it’s really a classy women’s guide to dating and relational happiness. And rather than, you know, a lot of times people have questions, people want to know “how do I apply this to this?” or “I’m seeing this guy,” or “this guy at work kind of has shown some interest and what do I do?” Well, I want to make myself available and create a group environment that allows that to happen. So if you’d like to check that out there is an application process actually, so the first–
michael fiore: As well there should be, it seems, so yeah.
michael griswold: Yeah, ’cause you know it’s, you know I want to be working with people who are like minded, who want to achieve a certain level of relation and are committed to it. Because you know, it’s, you know, it takes some effort.
So they first step is to go to dontdatedouchebags.com and fill out your name and email address so that I can email you. And what will happen then is I’ll email you the application and there’s, if you don’t want to then it’s no problem, and if you do then if you’re one of the first few to get in then you know we’ll be able to work together as long as you’re approved, and I can guarantee you with absolute certainty that my commitment to you will be unwavering and that you, whatever it is that you choose to desire at the beginning of our program, you will achieve that by the end of it. So, that’s the deal.
michael fiore: Well, fantastic. Michael, thank you so very much. I know the women who have listened to this so far, I’m actually thinking of certain customers of mine who interact with me on Facebook all the time and I can hear them you know saying “Oh my god, this is wonderful!” you know, and going to write a post about it right afterwards and I think we’ve covered a ton.
I want to thank you so much for helping me drill down some of the concepts I present in my own stuff, and also bringing your own unique perspective onto relationships on confidence, on men, on seduction, and sex, and helping me further my mis- sion of helping women understand men as they actually are, you know. How men actually are, because nobody ever actu- ally. . . I’ve done so much research on so many programs and they’re all full of these lies about guys. Or they try to soften stuff so much that they actually obfuscate it beyond recog- nizeability. And my goal is to take men and demystify them for women, and have you understand men and love men and have men love you for it. So Michael–
michael griswold: I want to commend you, man. It’s rare that you find people in this line of work who have the integrity, and not just that, but the insight and the ability to communicate it and I’m just really commend you for what you’re doing.
michael fiore: Well, thank you very much. So I’m Michael Fiore, I’m on the phone with Michael Griswold. You can learn more about him at dontdatedouchebags.com, which is the second best URL I’ve ever heard. I can’t tell you the first one, ’cause it’s one that I own for one of my men’s programs and it’s kind of dirty.
But thank you so much for being a part of this program, I really, really, appreciate it. And I’m sure the many women, the thousands of women, eventually, that will hear this will as well. Thank you.
michael griswold: All right, see ya.
